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Maci Nelson is The Land+Scape Nerd

• Guest: Maci Nelson • Episode 61

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Meet our fellow Cleveland podcaster, Maci Nelson. Maci is a landscape architect, the creator of The Land+Scape Nerd podcast, and a project manager for LAND Studio, a non-profit that connects communities through art and public spaces. In this episode, Maci shares what it's like to design for urban outdoor spaces and the importance of relying on residents' voices to drive the creation of vibrant, inclusive outdoor environments. Through her work at LAND Studio, Maci shares how public art and other enhancements create community-centric environments that reflect who we are as Clevelanders and how nature-based solutions help mitigate climate impacts in our inner cities. Also, hear Maci speak about her podcast, The Land+Scape Nerd, where she shares stories about people and landscapes and provides resources for anyone interested in the outdoor world. In our Tip Time, Maci gives her favorite native plant recommendations to help transform your outdoor space.

Guest:
Maci Nelson, Project Manager at LAND Studio and creator of The Land+Scape Nerd podcast

Resources mentioned in this episode:
Maci's podcast - The Land+Scape Nerd
Follow Maci on Instagram@thelandscapenerd
LAND Studio projects - Small Giants sculptures at Wendy Park and The City is Our Museum
Cleveland Seed Bank workshops
Wild Ones Greater Cleveland
The Pollinator Partnership

Follow us:
https://www.facebook.com/ecospeakscle
https://www.instagram.com/ecospeakscle

Contact us:
hello@ecospeakscle.com


Diane Bickett:

You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for the eco-curious in Northeast Ohio. My name is Diane Bickett and my producer is Greg Rotuno. Together we speak with local sustainability leaders and invite you to connect, learn and live with our community and planet in mind. Hello friends, today's episode features a fellow Cleveland podcaster, macy Nelson. Macy is the creator of the Landscape Nerd podcast, which explores the intersection of landscape architecture and our everyday lives. So ever since starting my podcast, I thought it would be fun to interview another podcaster, but it had to be just the right one. So when I noticed someone called the landscape nerd liking my EcoSpeaks Instagram post and discovered that that nerd was a Clevelander, a landscape architect and a podcaster, I knew I found the right person. So one thing led to another and we got to meet last week at the Botanical Gardens Celebration of Seeds event. And here we are today to talk about how our landscapes define us, the art of designing for urban conditions, nature-based solutions for addressing climate change and more. Welcome, macy.

Maci Nelson:

Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is exciting. It's such a kind intro.

Diane Bickett:

You got two people that like to talk. The house is gonna go no-transcript from Kent State and a background in education and advocacy. So what drew you to this career?

Maci Nelson:

choice. As you mentioned the involvement, this field is very broad and it allows for a lot of my interests to come together and to communicate with a lot of different people, and that's what I really enjoyed about it.

Diane Bickett:

Awesome, okay, so let's define the term landscape. I think it might mean something different to me than to you as a professional landscape architect. When I think of landscape, I'm thinking of greenery, but what does that mean to you?

Maci Nelson:

Yes, thank you, it's. It's a. The term landscape architect is like a positive and a negative right, because it can be misleading to people who don't know the profession. So it has the word architecture in there.

Maci Nelson:

So, people tend to think buildings, and then it has landscape in there, which people tend to think about maintenance or plants and landscaping, which is also true. It's not that either of those are wrong, it's just that it's pretty much everything outside of the building is what we are trained to design and hopefully build Right. So, yes, there are plants, yes, there are buildings, yes, there's hardscape, there's water, there's, most importantly, people. So that is how I frame landscape in that way is that it's a part of a very complex system, or rather, it's the setting for all of these things that we do in our lives that happen outside.

Diane Bickett:

Including public art, which we'll get to a little bit later. Outside Including public art, which we'll get to a little bit later. So what is your area of expertise or special interest as a landscape architect? Are there certain settings that you like to design for?

Maci Nelson:

Yes, so I have a particular interest and, like a lot of my advocacy work is about inclusion, especially around disability and neuro inclusion, which is really just understanding how we design for the different ways our brains operate at different points in our lives. So, making sure that places are accessible to, whether it's art or a park, you know how do you make sure that everyone is welcome.

Diane Bickett:

Okay, and so some of your work with Land Studio, which is your current employer you're a project manager at Land Studio involves designing for urban spaces. What landscape design considerations come into play for urban settings?

Maci Nelson:

So the first thing, well, there's two things that kind of tie for. First, the one that I have been trained to say is health, safety and welfare making sure that whatever we're designing for especially in urban conditions because they're very different from, you know, say, a rural condition you're trying to make sure everyone's safe there. But the second thing I would say is the community's voice right. Who is living here? What do they want? What do they need? Those are the things that we can turn into design choices, right. It's not to say that we're going to decide something's going to be designed here and then make it fit the community voice. It should be other way around. It's to say what are people asking for and then how do we make it happen.

Diane Bickett:

And how are you engaging the community then in those decisions at Land Studio? Are you convening them in some way?

Maci Nelson:

Yeah, so a lot of our projects. We have so many project partners. So, whether it's us convening a community meeting or doing a survey or, you know, inviting people out to picnics or something like that, and also just one-on-one conversations and inviting people to come meet us and talk to us so we can hear them, either it's us or we're helping partners do it, because we know that's a critical part of this whole process. Whenever you're either making art public or you're placemaking Though we have an expertise in how to make it happen, but we are not the experts on like why it's happening- Okay, Gotcha we.

Diane Bickett:

I guess I jumped ahead a little bit, maybe you should explain a little more about what land studio?

Maci Nelson:

is yes, so land studio. I describe it as a place making front. What did I describe it as actually in my bio? Big term, because we we really focus on how do we make public art happen? How do we implement these projects that come from an idea from somebody or an organization and go through all the processes of permitting and connecting artists and convening those community meetings? How do you get that idea of oh, we want a mural somewhere to the mural is there okay um, and so Land does a variety of projects.

Maci Nelson:

So it's not just public art. We do Land and its art and its neighborhoods and engagement and then also development. So we work around a lot of what community needs are and finding the right partners.

Maci Nelson:

Yeah, strong connection to the city of Cleveland? Yes, for sure. What projects are you excited about of a boy and a girl that are painted by this incredible artist, alex Sena? And this was a project that had started prior to COVID, before the pandemic, okay, and so it was great to be able to finish that. But I love the setting because it's right on the lake. It's also in the migratory path of the monarchs when they come through. Really, yeah, so Wendy Park is one of the greatest places to go see the monarchs. They're kind of there right now. I was around last week and, yes, so if you have time, I would definitely say go check it out.

Diane Bickett:

One of the small giants is a girl and she's looking out towards the lake, I believe, and the other is a boy sitting looking out towards the city.

Maci Nelson:

About the placement of that, I'm sure that was intentional it was very intentional and that was like through the artist and they have a lot to say about it and we have covered it a lot on land studios, instagram, um, and we have a story like stories and reels, about it okay, and that installation will be there for how long a year? Okay, yeah, so we get to see it through the seasons all right, I'm gonna get down there and check it out.

Diane Bickett:

What about the City? Is Our Museum?

Maci Nelson:

Yes, Tell us about that. I'm excited about that one because it was an app, or it is an app that Land Studio created and is revamping right now, and it helps people get out into their communities to look at art and other historic places, right, so it's about the stories that are already existing there. Um, and so you can. It's a self-guided tour and you can just walk around a neighborhood and then see the history of what that is, or the story behind the piece and how many pieces are there or murals, oh goodness, oh those are like could you do it in a day?

Maci Nelson:

um, there's some that you could do in a day right. So there are different neighborhoods that like highlighting um one that I really want people to check out is the university circle one, because there's so many art pieces around there that might go a little unnoticed because there's so many museums and pieces there, so that one's a good tour. And then we also have ones for Ohio City, which has a lot of artwork out and about. So, yeah, it's, it's meant to be whatever you wanted to do, like enhance your visiting experience already.

Diane Bickett:

That could be fun. So how do our landscapes define us? Like when someone comes into the city and they see the public art and they see the intentional public parks and the design that was put into them. That represents us very well.

Maci Nelson:

Yes, that's such a good question because it's something that I think about whenever I visit new cities. I'm like, what do your public spaces say about you? And I think what Cleveland is working towards is making that more understood. Like we have a very complex history and it's hard to explain that in just one visit or seeing one place right. So it's important that in as many public spaces as possible, you have some representation of the community that it's in right.

Maci Nelson:

Because you can't just say, oh, this is Cleveland, right, because that's that Cleveland's made up of a lot of smaller pieces and people, and you know. So I would say it's just very important that public art or public spaces are expressive, and you know, some places do that really really well. I am thinking about Wendy Park, obviously, as that example, because now you have this big piece of art there that says okay, here's something that we want you to look at our lake.

Maci Nelson:

I would also throw in there, too, like public square downtown, as that you know as an example, to say you know there's something that people needed that you know. As an example, to say you know there's something that people needed, who you know. A lot of residents didn't have a place to gather downtown and now they have creating a place that was welcoming to families and has food and it has programming and really trying to do that, and I know that Land Studio led that project before my time.

Diane Bickett:

Very good. What would you like to see in terms of designing public spaces that honor Cleveland's industrial past? If you had a great big budget, what type of elements would you like to see incorporated?

Maci Nelson:

I would really like to see the reuse of certain materials okay, like uh, ones that are local, or to save them from the dump right to to not oh, we're all about creative reuse. Yes, exactly um to, to put in the effort to uh and if you said big budget, right, because those things make like that reuse takes uh time and money um, to reuse a lot of our I think a lot of our brick material.

Speaker 3:

Okay, would be really cool to see.

Maci Nelson:

Like polished up. Also, we have one of the oldest wooden streets ever Tesla Court. Yeah, tesla Court and not that I. I don't know, actually, all of the details that go into that, but I do think there's something about using wooden materials in an urban area that like led up to our industrial age.

Diane Bickett:

Yeah, how about steel too? Yeah.

Maci Nelson:

We can incorporate steel, that in a way to honor the past of the industrial, you know, yeah, our industrial past. I'm wondering if we could hybridize the industrial past with more like natural solutions. So saying like yeah, there is this, you know steel bridge. Like OK, so what could that turn into Right? Like what does that turn into A green?

Diane Bickett:

Are we talking about the Veterans Memorial Bridge? Yeah, yeah, it's like, can we turn that?

Maci Nelson:

into something else. That is, a balance of what was back then and then also what came before it, like what had to disappear in order for it to exist. And then how do we then blend those two things together, Like that's how I would like to see some sort of hybridization two things together, like that's how I would like to see some sort of hybridization.

Diane Bickett:

I like that idea and I know the county's looking for all sorts of ideas on how to use the space below the bridge which was the trolley cars used to go there. I did the bridge walk this year the second time. It was super cool, very cool. I'm glad that you like that, yeah.

Maci Nelson:

Second time. It was super cool, very cool.

Diane Bickett:

I'm glad that you like that. Yeah, I noticed. I read in the paper over the weekend that the county got another big chunk of money to take down a lot of structures, still more, more demolition projects. This one they featured is talking about an apartment complex in East Cleveland and the Blight in East Cleveland is well known and they interviewed residents who had to look at that and the buildings are coming down soon and that's great for them. There will be an opportunity there, a blank canvas, so to speak, that could help bring the community together and revitalize the community. Do you have any thoughts about? You know what could be done there? I mean, I think, public park, community garden.

Maci Nelson:

I think like first and foremost, again going back to the community voice, that I would want to hear what they wanted, because I do know that housing is so critical right.

Maci Nelson:

That, even though we have a lot of blight, that doesn't mean that people don't need these spaces to be something that can serve them in a way that actually helps their needs and their community. In a way that actually helps their needs and their community. Even though I'm like I'm a landscape person and I would love more green spaces, I think that there's a lot of opportunity for green spaces to be woven into, built like buildings, okay, and and things like that. So if housing is coming down, but it's still needed, right, and they need to rebuild it as housing, Can we?

Maci Nelson:

also make that a green space that is incorporating housing. That to me would be something great. Yeah, play space for kids.

Diane Bickett:

Exactly right.

Maci Nelson:

How can it be more than one thing?

Diane Bickett:

Yeah, for Cleveland and East Cleveland and some of our other cities that have heat islands and East Cleveland and some of our other cities that have heat islands. And can we use landscape architecture to kind of address our region's climate impacts? You know, flooding, heat islands, loss of biodiversity? Absolutely.

Maci Nelson:

Yeah, this is sort of the like the biggest thing that I think Cleveland could really monopolize on using their landscape architects to find nature based solutions for our specific regions, like issues right. And you mentioned urban heat island. For those that aren't familiar, it's the idea that the sun is heating up and basically storing a lot of heat into the hardscapes, like our concrete and asphalt, and so it's making it hotter in those spaces, but also when the sun goes down, that hardscape is just radiating the heat right back out into the environment for longer. So these areas are just hotter and will continue to get hotter as our environment gets hotter. Hotter and will continue to get hotter as our environment gets hotter. And so one of the solutions that's proposed for that is, you know, more trees to create more shading right To allow for that area to be cooled right, but that's also takes time Trees you know, so that's just one example.

Maci Nelson:

You need to cool off, but it's going to take 20 years Correct Right, so that's not exactly the most response like a responsive solution, but it is a great long term solution. So what we're finding out is that we need to stagger a lot of these implementations, a lot of these strategies to help what's needed now and then what's needed in the future. But the big challenge is we know that nature-based solutions work, but we've built environments that are impeding nature you know.

Maci Nelson:

So it does take time, and it takes testing too, to figure out what works in different areas. Yeah, so anything from a rain garden to reforestation helps and that is how like we can do that. But we need more projects and, yeah, we need funding and we need advocacy for that kind of work to be done.

Diane Bickett:

Buildings coming down creates tremendous opportunity, and I'm so glad to hear that people like yourself are talking about these things and working to implement them. We need city planners focused on that, and I'm sure they are.

Maci Nelson:

Yeah, we have them, you know we have them and they're working hard to see all of this happen. And yeah, that's good. Yeah, we have a lot of great people who are trying to blend, you know, the present, the past, the future. Yeah, what we need.

Diane Bickett:

Yeah, and trying to create a more livable urban environment. Yeah, want to talk about your podcast? I guess we should. So you are a nerd. How are you a landscape nerd? So you are a nerd. How are you a?

Maci Nelson:

landscape nerd I say I'm very much more a nerd than I am an academic because, I definitely enjoy learning and researching.

Diane Bickett:

I'm not sure I know the difference between a nerd and an academic?

Maci Nelson:

Oh, I think one is just like you know, one actually. Oh no, I also teach. I was going to say one actually teaches at a college. Oh, I should have added that to my list of things that you do. Um, I would say that a nerd has a different kind of enthusiasm. Like I, don't have a goal per se when I'm researching these things, other than to maybe share it with other people. I'm not using it to necessarily prove a point.

Maci Nelson:

I'm just curious about it um so I try to cover anything that, like, you might encounter during your day, to just showcase how we're all connected through outdoor space, right? So okay, I did an episode on, uh, a favorite place I visit very often, the shaker lakes nature center, um, and that was one of the first episodes I've ever done, and that was because I was like, oh, I love this place so much, well, why? Okay, now let's look at the design that made that place enjoyable oh, I'm gonna check out that episode what number episode was that?

Maci Nelson:

oh, it's number one your first one, okay, cool and you have.

Diane Bickett:

You have, how many episodes are you?

Maci Nelson:

I think I'm like 50 something episodes really.

Diane Bickett:

So we're like right there together, but you are 61.

Maci Nelson:

You're way more productive than this is. I'm at 50 something after four years I keep to a schedule and I'm retired, but um, but yeah, so that that's what I focus on, um, and then I also have done an episode on dungeon dragons because, like, I love that game, but, as a designer, it's talking about how you have an idea right and you're trying to convince people around you that this is a workable idea right, so I have an idea for a garden, I have to convince the client or the homeowner that this idea is going to work, and then you also believe that right.

Maci Nelson:

So you do the same thing in playing games or role playing games. So that's how.

Diane Bickett:

I would have never connected those.

Maci Nelson:

Oh, I know you are a nerd.

Speaker 3:

I love it. I love it.

Diane Bickett:

What other topics do you cover, like that would be of interest to EcoSpeaks listeners.

Maci Nelson:

Oh yes, so I talk a lot about how you can inform the space around you, like that's the whole reason I do this is like to empower people to say like, oh, you have a connection to your landscape and when you have that connection you can kind of like change it, you can play with it, okay.

Maci Nelson:

Um, one of the biggest thing, like one of my most favorite episodes too, is about landscape and music, and so, like when we go out to these outdoor concerts, right especially during this time of year, how we're experiencing these spaces you can start to say, oh, I understand, I love going to, like cane park, you know, for for a show or when someone does a pop up show on a bridge Right.

Maci Nelson:

I think the city is starting to do that, that you know you can enjoy your outdoor spaces in different ways, and then it helps people understand the value of these outdoor spaces to stay green and nice and around and not to be, you know, decided to be become something else, like this is a place for gathering and like that's what I think.

Diane Bickett:

Um, and that's so healthy for us to just to be outdoors anywhere, but especially enjoying music or art. Um, it's good for our mental health, it is. Should we get into tip time? Oh yeah.

Speaker 3:

Let's talk tips.

Diane Bickett:

Okay, well, is there anything else you want to say about your podcast? Before we move on? I don't want to cut you off- oh, no, I appreciate that.

Maci Nelson:

I guess, really, if you're interested in just nerding out about things that you didn't, I don't know, I cover a lot of topics. Another episode I'm thinking about right now is the lawn episode, where we talk about, like, why we have lawns, you know, and because I know a lot of people want to get rid of their lawns, transform their lawns, or they do like their lawns. They don't know how to like, how to justify it, right, like. There's a lot in that episode for your listeners I think that they would enjoy, okay, but yeah, again, it's, it's just deep diving into topics for for a little bit of time with me and yeah, okay.

Diane Bickett:

And you're a little different than this podcast in that you're just talking to you, mean that's, you are you interviewing people too? Sometimes sometimes, but mostly it's just macy nerding out it.

Maci Nelson:

It starts off a lot of macy nerding out, okay, like so. There are a lot of solo episodes and then you know other nerdy people reach out and then they want to. They want to talk too. I admire that, because I couldn't just sit at a microphone and talk.

Diane Bickett:

I'm not that chatty but I appreciate people that are Okay moving into tip time. So for the non-nerds out there, I guess, since you are affiliated with the Cleveland Seed Bank and I think we have some gardeners out there that are listening can you recommend any seed varieties that grow well here in Cleveland and are adapted to our Northeast Ohio climate, our changing Northeast Ohio climate?

Maci Nelson:

Yeah, so I think it's important to note that with the Cleveland Seed Bank, we encourage people to save their own seeds right. And grow what's around you and like kind of what your neighbors are already doing, because they're already adapting, know as we speak, as they're going through this process. Um, I'm a, I love, but more native than the more native oh correct right, yeah so, um, I would say, like, my favorites are bergamot, and so monarda, uh, what's that last one, minarda, which is, which is wild bergamot's um botanic name. Okay, yes, sir.

Maci Nelson:

So so yeah, wild bergamot, uh, and purple coneflower those ones um are like my favorite milkweed, of course, is something that we are all getting to to know and love. Um, yellow coneflower, I think, is one that doesn't get enough enough. Uh, love out there as some, as a, as a perennial that adapts very well. Um, one thing that I haven't seen growing around here, more so in southern ohio, which goes into like the fruiting trees, is our pawpaw oh, yeah, I I Would love to see more pawpaws around here. Why, why not, I think, for like a crop and for food sustainability?

Diane Bickett:

Because it's cool to say I think the texture is a little weird. I'm not sure I'm a pawpaw lover, but oh.

Maci Nelson:

I have full intentions on going to Pawpaw Fest this year Athens, Ohio, Pawpaw Fest.

Diane Bickett:

When is it Usually in the fall?

Maci Nelson:

Oh yeah, I think it's September 13th through 15th Coming up, but because I mean, with an adapting climate, right, we are getting warmer and so a lot of the varieties of trees and plants that are doing well in southern Ohio are going to start to do well here. Okay, so that's something to keep in mind.

Maci Nelson:

All right in mind um, that we've got, we've gone beyond a certain point where we can't uh, turn back, certainly in certain things, but that doesn't mean we can't adapt right. So that's why I say, like, for a tree, pawpaw, I'd love to see a little bit more of that. It's a lot. I know it's a fruiting tree, but um, fruiting trees were highly recommended from the panel.

Diane Bickett:

At the celebration of seeds. They were yeah, witch hazel was recommended.

Maci Nelson:

Oh yes, it was very popular. I love witch hazel. Yeah, thanks for bringing that one up, yeah.

Diane Bickett:

Any flowering tree.

Maci Nelson:

Yes, yeah, they liked it for like, especially because people like to have them right.

Diane Bickett:

Oh, they're beautiful.

Maci Nelson:

They're beautiful and I think that's important and, especially as a designer, no-transcript of these things look like in their natural settings and also see what they look like in horticultural settings, so that you know you're going to get a variety of plants and variety of like growth types, you know, and you can make things really, really beautiful there's resources out there.

Diane Bickett:

There's greater cleveland, wild ones and the pollinator project nature in my backyard different organizations that can help you decide, and at what's the plan and at the cleveland seed bank, we do offer workshops monthly to cover different topics right around.

Maci Nelson:

You know, becoming more sustainable in your own space whether that's composting or learning how to cook with the food that comes out of your garden, or saving your seeds, like those are types of things that are a resource that everybody could use, like you know, anyone who's listening right now.

Diane Bickett:

Okay, well, we'll put links to those organizations in our show notes. And my final tip is follow eco speak see le on instagram and facebook and follow the landscape nerd on. Where are you on?

Maci Nelson:

instagram as well.

Diane Bickett:

Okay, on instagram I mean you never know what beautiful friendships you can create by reaching out to some of your followers. So, yeah, well, thank you, macy.

Maci Nelson:

This was fun, thank you so much we covered a lot we did.

Speaker 3:

We hope you've enjoyed this episode of EcoSpeak CLE. You can find our full catalog of episodes on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes are available the first and third Tuesday of each month. Please follow EcoSpeak CLE on Facebook and Instagram and become part of the conversation. If you would like to send us feedback and suggestions, or if you'd like to become a sponsor of EcoSpeak CLE, you can email us at hello at ecospeakclecom. Stay tuned for more important and inspiring stories to come.

People on this episode

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Diane Bickett

Host
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Greg Rotuno

Co-host