Forest Stories with Annie Weight and Jessica Miller Mecaskey

There are many ways to love a forest, and in this episode, we introduce you to a variety of forest stewards who are nurturing our region's woodlands. They are featured in a Holden Forest & Gardens project called Ways to Love a Forest: Stories of Woodland Stewardship in Northeast Ohio, a booklet that includes interviews with educators, landowners, scientists, and community leaders.

Sharing these stories and ways we can all be stewards of our land are Annie Weight, former Forestry Outreach Fellow at Holden Forest and Gardens, and Jessica Miller Mecaskey, Consulting Forester with Holden Arboretum’s Working Woods Learning Forest. We also hear some of the people featured in the project: Lola Lewis, Dee Belew, Judy Semroc, and Joan Steidl. 

What is forest stewardship? Why should we care? Should forests be left alone or managed? How do good intentions and good management differ? What resources are there for landowners and non-landowners to become better forest stewards? And what career paths can forest lovers pursue? We cover all this and more as Annie talks about how the fellowship project came about and the people she met, and as Jessica shares how the Holden Arboretum's Working Woods Resource Hub and Learning Forest supports landowners through workshops,  on-site consulting, and guidance on everything from invasive species to long-term woodland management and restoration.

We should all care about sustainable forestry, urban tree canopy, and land conservation, and Ways to Love a Forest provides inspiration and practical advice from those doing the work and helping us all connect to the land. There is much to explore at the Holden Arboretum this spring. Plan a visit.

Transcript

Episode and Guest Introductions

Diane Bickett, Host 0:04

You're listening to EcoSpeak CLE, a podcast for the Eco Curious in Northeast Ohio. My name is Diane Bickett, and my producer is Greg Rotuno. Together we speak with local sustainability leaders and invite you to connect, learn, and live with our community and planet in mind. Hello, friends. Today we're talking about a cool project of Holden Forest and Gardens that introduces us to the forest stewards of our region. Ohio used to be covered in forests, but by the mid-20th century, settlers and loggers have reduced our forest cover to just 12%. But these days our forest cover stands at around 30% thanks to many determined individuals and organizations nurturing our woodlands back to life. Some of these efforts are featured in a project called Ways to Love a Forest: Stories of Woodland Stewardship in Northeast Ohio. The stories were compiled by our guest, Annie Waite, a forestry outreach fellow with Holden Forest and Gardens, and features interviews with landowners, foresters, scientists, and community members, which capture the voices of land management and forest stewardship. Annie joins us here today to talk about the project along with Jessica Miller-Makaske, a consulting forester with the Working Woods Learning Forest at the Holden Arboretum in Kirtland. But before we hear from them, let's hear from some of the people featured in our project.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

I want people to get to know what's in the forest, to understand that we are not the only species on this planet. All the other species in the forest have the right to be there and conduct their lives too. My name is Judy Semrock. I am a field biologist, naturalist, and advocate for wild spaces.

SPEAKER_07 1:57

To be in the woods and to tap the trees and collect the sap, I love it. We do this on our 66 and a half acre farm with an easement on our property with Western Reserve Land Conservancy. My name is Dave Lou. My husband Bill and I are maple syrup producers, blueberry farmers, and stewards of a 200-year-old 40-acre sugar bush in Giada County. And with the help from my son Bill and his wife Amy, it is a true family operation.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

I'm realizing that you have to work the land to save it. Before we were just letting nature run its course, and that's okay. But this is more intentional, and I think it's going to do more good. My name is Joan Steidel. My partner, Nancy and I, are community educators, animal lovers, and stewards of 107 acres of deciduous forests, wetlands, and meadow in Ashtabula County.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Humans, animals, and plants, we all need each other. We all depend on one another. My name is Lola Lewis. I am a great-grandmother, a community educator, a risk taker, and an arborist. I am a former regional urban forester with Ohio Department of Natural Resources. I currently work with Youngstown Neighborhood Development Corporation to help plant trees, to help restore urban tree canopy in our neighborhood.

Diane Bickett, Host 3:38

Welcome Annie. Welcome Jessica. Thank you. It's great to be here. Yeah. Annie, you're joining us from where are you? You're like out west, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:48

I'm in Salt Lake City right now. Okay.

How Forest Stories Came About w/ Annie

Diane Bickett, Host 3:51

Yes. Well, you finished up your project with Holden Forest and Gardens last year, and I think you're still in school. But I want to hear about how this project came about. We'll get to your background in a minute, but how did the project come about and what was the goal?

SPEAKER_06 4:10

Sure. Yes. So I graduated from my undergrad in 2024, and I moved back home to Ohio and got a job at the Arboretum, Holden Forests and Gardens, in this grant-funded fellowship position. And Jessica, who's here on the call with us, was the one who hired me and who was supervising me at the beginning of that position, and communicated that she would like me to develop a project for the course of this fellowship. So I studied anthropology in school. So I know I'm I knew I wanted to do something that had to do with stories and interviews, and through our conversations about the forestry issues in the region and the things we were working on in the department, the forestry department there at the Arboretum. This project came about as a way to show the many different aspects and facets of forest stewardship that are happening in the region.

About the Holden Forest & Gardens Working Woods Resource Hub w/ Jessica

Diane Bickett, Host 5:20

Okay, very cool. And it's not just sharing the stories. I read the booklet recently, and it's it's very instructional, very informative. It's got advice for landowners and non-landowners alike. Um Jessica, you're featured in Forest Stories as a forester at the Holden Arboretum with the Working Woods Lab, right? So, you know, what Yeah, the working, we call it the Working Woods Resource Head. It's out at the Holden Arboretum. What do you wish people understood about forests?

SPEAKER_05 5:52

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So many things. So in my work, I assist private landowners and the public to steward and take care of the woods. And I think that oftentimes there is a perception that the woods or forests, natural areas can take care of themselves. But what that assumes is that humans are separate from the natural environment. So what I wish people really understood about forests is that regardless of if you are a forest owner or not, or you know, most relationship you have with a forest is that you have a hardwood floor in your house. Everybody is related to forests in some way and has a role in stewarding them. And that a passive approach to caring for wooded landscapes doesn't necessarily result in healthy forested landscapes.

Diane Bickett, Host 6:51

And is the Working Woods Learning Hub the goal of that, helping people understand how to better take care of their woodlands?

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Absolutely. So the Working Woods Resource Hub was established as an effort to build upon the Working Woods Learning Forest, which started off as a demonstration site where we wanted to really show and tell people what does this actually mean? What does caring for the woods mean? And what better way to do that than actually walk the walk, walk the talk at Holden ourselves? So it really started there on that 65 to 70 acres. And quickly we realized through doing some public education and outreach that we had an opportunity to go even further, that there was a gap where a lot of people wanted help and were looking for it to meet their goals in their woodlands, but didn't necessarily have the resources or, you know, things like the available resources through the Division of Forestry. They were a bit overstretched. So we started this initiative, the Working With Resource, to fill some of that gap for those who are really wanting to conserve and steward their woodlands or the woodlands around them. So we do that through providing courses and classes on everything from invasive species management to non-timber forest products to direct assistance through our consulting forestry program, our business, where we go to people's private woodlands and help them figure out how to meet their goals. So, and then we also have a restoration seed bank, which fills the niche of this need that we have in our landscape for native trees that are from bioregional genetics to repopulate and reforest our area. So we're we're trying to do a lot through the Working Woods Resource Hub, but it's all coming out of realizing wow, if if our mission at Holden Forests and Gardens is to connect people with the value of trees and to inspire some action for communities to be more vibrant, then these are the things that are really needed in our wider community in our region.

Finding Stewards And Gathering Interviews

Diane Bickett, Host 9:20

And side note, we interviewed Kimberly Lesman about the Holden Sea Bank a couple of years ago. Oh, sorry. When it when it first opened, really, really interesting work there. So Annie, you interviewed like 20-some people for this project. How did you how did you find these folks and and how long did it take? And how do we get a copy of these four stories?

SPEAKER_06 9:45

Good question.

Diane Bickett, Host 9:46

Three questions right in a row.

SPEAKER_06 9:50

Yes. Yes. So there were 20 interviews, and um, I started by asking some of the people that I worked with at the Arboretum if they had thoughts on who might be who might represent a variety of perspectives. So Jessica connected me to a few people who were able to connect me to more people. I found, and I don't know if this has been your experience, but the world of Northeast Ohio conservation actually feels pretty small. There's a lot of interconnections and feels like a big web. So yes, a lot of asking people for who to ask, and then they gave me more suggestions. And I did them over the course of I think about four or five months. I loved to do them in person. So I did a lot of them. I would visit the people at their homes or their woods.

Diane Bickett, Host 10:52

So it must have been a lot of fun. It must have been a lot of fun to meet all these people. And you're a really good writer. I think I enjoyed reading the booklet. And it's available on the Holden Forest and Gardens website, a digital copy, but can also request a printed copy, which I recommend because the photography is beautiful as well.

SPEAKER_06 11:15

And Jessica probably is better aware of how many physical copies are left and what process you've been using to distribute them now.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

Yes, I would I would welcome anybody who is listening and interested in a physical copy to reach out to us. You can reach out by calling and being directed to the right party, but it's probably easiest to just email forestry at holdenfg.org and we'll try to connect people who are interested with a copy with one of those copies. Okay. They are. They're beautiful, they're really well done. I think it does a good job of highlighting the faces and the people behind forest stewardship in Northeast Ohio. I I got so excited about Annie wanting to do this project because in working in this field, I recognize that I get to meet so many individuals who are doing incredible conservation work, whether that be on their own land or in their profession or in their volunteer time. But it's not necessarily a community that gets to meet each other. So there are all these potential stories and this potential energy that could be generated from people getting inspired by others who are loving the landscape in similar ways and meeting similar challenges. But sometimes it can be difficult to actually cultivate that community when people aren't, you know, necessarily meeting each other. So this was such a great opportunity to bring those stories into one place and eventually to bring a lot of those people into one place so they could talk to each other. Um, you know, there are woodland landowner associations and things like this. But you know, in Northeast Ohio, most of our forests are privately owned. So finding every way we can to bring that community together to learn from each other and to be inspired, you know, it's really private landowners who bear most of the responsibility in taking care of our forested landscape.

Examples and Lessons of Forest Stewardship

Diane Bickett, Host 13:25

And they need a lot of support. I noticed in reading this booklet. Annie, you've organized it into four sections. The the first are the first section is people that seek and share knowledge. The second section is organizations or people that are connecting with the community and trying to educate and bring more people into this work. The third is people working to cultivate resilient working lands. And the fourth is people helping build healthy ecosystems. So can you just talk a little bit about some of the folks you met in these various sections? And anyone, any folks that stood out to you or stories that you captured that you want to share?

SPEAKER_06 14:15

Sure. Okay, yeah. So the first section, like you mentioned, people who are seeking and sharing knowledge about forest ecosystems. These are a lot of scientists and educators who are really demonstrating the first step of any stewardship journey, which is to get to know what you're trying to care for, and get to know the plants and animals that live there and the way the ecosystem works. There's one story in particular that's a little bit of a different angle in this section, and that's Joe and Christelle Di Liberto, who are a couple who experienced what a lot of people in Northeast Ohio experience, which is they mistakenly signed a bad timber contract, and their land is really suffering for it. We wanted to include stories like that so that people could understand maybe what to look out for if they if they want to sell timber or if they want to do some sort of cut on their land. And I included the Dilobertos in this section because they have really dedicated themselves to sharing that story so that other people in the area can know sort of what's possible and what's at stake. So I really appreciated their willingness to talk to me.

Diane Bickett, Host 15:43

Yeah, that one I'm not to interrupt, but that that story stood out to me too, because yeah, I never really thought about people taking advantage of timber, you know, and a bad timber contract. I never thought about that before, but um yeah, there's there's bad people everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

So yeah, unfortunately. And it's it's sad too, because I think oftentimes this does wind up happening because people don't think about the monetary value present in their woods and that there's a whole economy that's built around it.

Diane Bickett, Host 16:20

And you can harvest wood, but you have to be careful how you harvest it, right?

SPEAKER_05 16:24

So absolutely. Yeah. If if if there's a plan and a a good silviculturally sound timber harvest, uh woods can stay woods forever, but bad timber harvests can result in setting a woodland back a century. Whereas, you know, the same in the deal deal the the landowners situation that Lanny's talking about, they could have still had a timber harvest that provided a decent amount of income and have had a forest left for their heirs and for the next generation. But unfortunately, yeah, they were wiped out and in a situation where it's going to take many, many, many years to come back. Oh, God, that's hardcore. And that's all that all has to do with going through a forester and making a good plan and understanding that there are resources out there that people can access to help them, whether that's through the division of forestry or through Holden or through another consulting forester. Yeah. Okay, good to know.

Diane Bickett, Host 17:29

Okay, Annie, keep going. Okay. Sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_06 17:34

Those were important comments. Thank you. Yeah, we have another section of people who are really involved in forest stewardship at community or municipal level. So we have people who are urban foresters, people who are involved in sort of urban and suburban projects in public parks. We have the Cuyahoga Indigenous Tribal Council, which is doing really great work in Cleveland Heights, and the Gates Mills Tree Canopy Committee, which I thought they provided a very cool example of what a small town or village is able to do if they band together and decide that they want to collectively take care of lands that they share. So there's a lot of cool things in there.

Diane Bickett, Host 18:30

I think they were one of the first land conservancies around. They predated the Western Reserve Land Conservancy, I believe.

SPEAKER_05 18:36

Oh, the Gates Mills Land Conservancy. That that may be the case. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_06 18:40

Yeah. Yeah. They've been doing good work for a while. Yeah. Very cool. And the next section is people who are actively working the land. That's a big theme of this booklet is people who are engaged in very reciprocal relationships with their woods. They are actively putting things in to care for their woods, but they're also receiving tangible benefits in their lives, whether that's income or timber or something like maple syrup. I think you mentioned earlier, Diane, Bill, and Didi Balou, who are maple syrup producers and they care for several acres of sugar bush. And they're doing amazing work as well. I they were one of my favorite people to speak to for this experience because of how much they love their woods and how much joy they get out of having built a life that is centered around reciprocity with their woods. They're in their woods every day, they're taking care of their trees, they're going to classes to learn how to care for their maples while still tapping them in a way that can be done for generations and generations. So they're very amazing. Everyone should check out Messenger Century Farm if you want to visit.

Diane Bickett, Host 20:10

I'm very excited. I didn't realize they were there and they're probably two miles from my house.

SPEAKER_06 20:15

So amazing. And then the last section is people who are really focused on the conservation aspect, wildlife aspect of forest stewardship, who are really thinking about the other animals, especially, or plants that they're sharing their ecosystem with, and who are actively trying to restore lands to healthier ecosystems, or what they might have been, you know, a hundred years ago or something. So they're wonderful too. And I know you're having Joan on here. So Joan and Nancy have done really wonderful work, and I'm excited for everyone to read about their story. They're just they've just dedicated their lives to creating a landscape that is biodiverse and vibrant and beautiful.

Diane Bickett, Host 21:12

Yeah, what struck me about Joan and Nancy's story was when they first became caretakers of this property, 107 acres in Ashtabula County. I think they first approached it as just let nature take its course. And as a forester, Jessica, why is that not the right approach at this point?

Forestry Careers And Hidden Job Paths

SPEAKER_05 21:37

That narrative of letting nature take its course shows up in a lot of places. That the best way to show care is just to leave no trace. But the reality is we are a part of nature and relationship with the natural places and systems, whether we see it or not. And in Ohio, the woods that we know today, they're of course dynamic systems. And they show signs of impacts. It happened way before any of us were alive when people had already been in interaction with almost every single forested area in our state. So, Diane, you mentioned that that statistic about how we went from 12% forest cover in mid the mid-century back up to 30%. A lot of that newer forest is simply forest that has popped up after agriculture sort of took a dip in our state. So we have these young forests that, you know, in a human lifespan, maybe aren't young, but on a forest lifespan, they really are. And they have been already impacted by human activity. So, you know, there is no letting nature take its course in many cases in our state when it comes to the woods. There's already been a significant human interaction. So I think that the biggest thing is to know that even doing nothing will still have consequences and that leaving nature alone is a management choice, it'll be one that will often not lead to forests being the most healthy or resilient that they possibly could be. Or even our communities being the most healthy or resilient that they could be. You know, humans are a part of these systems. There are some situations where doing very little is a good idea and just, you know, keeping an eye out for threats. But oftentimes active management means some sort of intentional corrective action to manage for specific goals.

Diane Bickett, Host 23:40

I want to talk a little bit now about careers in forestry. There's there's a lot of different paths people can take. Can you each talk a little bit about your current path? What other career paths people might want to consider if they also love their forest?

SPEAKER_06 23:58

Sure. I've been on a bit of a winding road. Like I mentioned, I studied anthropology and sustainability in school. And my position at the Arboretum was my first dip into forestry in any serious way. I've always cared a lot about the environment around me, and I've always loved to be outside, and I've always loved the woods. But this is my first sort of chance to really dig into and understand what forestry and silviculture meant. And as of now, I am actually going to divinity school this fall to become a chaplain. So wow, I love that. That's where the path it got going. Yes. I'm hoping though to incorporate, there's some people doing some really amazing work with like ecological chaplaincy or incorporating sort of eco-theologies into the way that they are working with people. So really hoping to continue to incorporate some of the things I've learned through this project and through being involved with Holden. So yeah, I'm hoping to incorporate that into my future in some way, but I do not know the shape that it will take.

Diane Bickett, Host 25:26

I think I think you're headed in the right direction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:30

Fingers crossed really exciting.

Diane Bickett, Host 25:33

So exciting. Advocates for for trees can be anywhere. And biology is one of those places. That's really cool. That's right. How about you, Jessica?

SPEAKER_05 25:44

Yeah. Oh, I've had a somewhat winding path as well, but I knew I knew that I wanted to be working in natural resources in general when I was in school. So I graduated with a general biology degree in undergrad. And then I've been working in essentially the Northeast Ohio region ever since in a variety of different capacities. So, you know, that's been as an environmental educator, as a field botanist, doing land management work for a summer camp and in all these different positions. But when I landed at Holden, it was really the landscape management approach that kept me here and really intrigued me. And I realized this was a place where I could develop those skills. I should say too, though, I didn't even know that forestry was a field that I could go into when I was first looking at careers in this realm. And I've since become very passionate about letting people know about forestry as a field, because it winds up incorporating a lot of different scientific disciplines and even social disciplines, and can go in so many different directions. So whether that's in the urban forestry direction, which is very different from the more rural consulting forestry direction. But essentially what they have in common is that they're considering a system, an ecosystem, and the dynamics that go into keeping forests healthy. And again, in considering humans as a part of that system as well. So yeah, I'm on now on the track of uh being a consulting forester. I'm seeking accreditation as a candidate member in the Association of Consulting Foresters. But there are also, you know, our state foresters, and there are outreach and extension forestry people, um, forest technicians, people who are focused more on the agroforestry side of things. And then, of course, the I mean the forestry industry in Ohio is a$24 billion industry with thousands and thousands of jobs. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Yeah, I think like over 55 to 57,000 jobs are supported in the forestry industry alone. So, I mean, that's everything, everybody from loggers to foresters to hardwood furniture. So, I mean, this is it's really interesting to meet everybody along the way. I got into this realm because I love the natural world. And it's so wonderful to be at the intersection of caring for the land and caring for the ecology of this region. And also it and seeing how it's very much possible to care for people and communities at the same time, that these are mutual goals. Um, and there are so many different professions that contribute to those goals.

Diane Bickett, Host 28:57

I loved what Judy Semrok had to say. She's like, get your kids, get kids outside, get your kids outside, and get yourself outside and see what's going on. That's right. Just get out there, just get out there and uh develop a love for this type of work.

SPEAKER_05 29:11

So you never know where it's gonna take you. It's dangerous.

Visiting the Working Woods Learning Forests and Ways to Learn and Get Involved

Diane Bickett, Host 29:14

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your personal stories and the stories of our forest stewards. I think this is a really interesting book. I hope people go grab a copy. There's a section on forestry fields in here. There's a whole advice section for non-landowners and landowners alike. It's just jam-packed with good stuff. So I'll put a link to the website where people can get a copy, at least a digital copy in the show notes. And is there a way to visit the do you have to make an appointment to visit the Working Woods Resource Hub if they wanted to come check it out? How's that work?

SPEAKER_05 29:57

Absolutely. So the resource hub, you can absolutely connect online because we have classes and opportunities, and you can join our newsletter. Um, as for the actual Working Woods Learning Forest, which is the physical location and demonstration site, landowners are welcome to come anytime. Uh you can access it through coming to Hold End and purchasing a ticket, but we like to specifically open up our demonstration site to landowners free of charge, no gate fee or anything. So we do just ask that you reach out and make an appointment so we can open up the gate for you and show you around. We just really want people to be able to come out and see different ways that we've done research on management techniques in the woods. So yeah, reach out to the forestry at Holden FG email address, or you can go to our website for information. We also have field days at least once a year. We open up the site, invite everybody to come, sort of make it a big open house. And we've got tours, we've got experts, we've got some of the forest scientists out there, and we invite other resource professionals to come make a big day out of it and try to get try to really truly be a hub for our community where we can be a one-stop shop for any question that folks might have about forest stewardship. We're also really honored to actually be the Tree Farm of the Year in Ohio this year. So we are super excited. Thank you. We're super excited to be hosting the Tree Farm of the Year tour at Working Woods this year. And we're gonna have so many different speakers and tours and things. Yeah, it's September 12th.

Diane Bickett, Host 31:42

Well, very good, ladies. Thank you so much for your time today, and so much. Thank you so much for all the work that you're doing. Annie, best of luck to you on your next day figuring that out. There are so many ways we can all do it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 32:01

Thanks, Diane. Thank you.

Greg Rotuno, producer 32:04

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